3)there is sanded caulk and non sanded caulk – you can purchase to match your grout color. In my opinion the best window cleaner out is Sprayway. The big advantages of using grout here is that it will match all the grout lines and it will never have to be replaced. Drywall is an easy fix. Inspirational ideas and expert advice from Bob Vila, the most trusted name in home improvement, home renovation, home repair, and DIY. I bought you liquid waterproofing ebook and it was a great help. Then afterward, caulking over the corner. In your case water is unable to run from the wall to the floor – something is stopping it at the bottom of the wall. I have used nearly everything for shelves. If I am understanding you correctly, by having silicone-caulked over the grout, this could actually make the situation worse by not allowing the water to drain from behind the tile walls, especially given that the entire floor perimeter has now been sealed. If your caulk does crack out or need to be replaced it is easily done. The nuclear option is to remove the bottom row of tile, figure out what the hell is preventing the water from reaching the floor, remove it and rebuild it correctly. I am all for it and have already been doing it on jobs. You gotta like my page. You can silicone immediately after grouting. I can add that in that corner, there is very little gap between the floor and wall tile, and a because a sanded grout was used instead of unsanded, I am not sure if that is contributing to the problem and perhaps the tile can’t hold on to the grout and this is why the grout failed so quickly after the install. What do you think of this plan? Choose a caulk gun that'll accommodate the type of caulk tube you'll use. if you are unfortunate to have a base issue and have to replace it. Will I be OK if I fill with thinset/mesh tape then run a strip of fabric/aquadefense down to the flange? A caulk gun is necessary for large caulk cartridges. In no way am I a tile expert, these ideas are only what we researched/found works for how we want to care for our home. Some plumbers tell me caulk isn’t needed. There is a tool for this and I believe you can buy them at Home Depot. PentaUSA Tile Grout Repairs Renews Fills Tube, 3 Triple Protection, Fast Drying Grout Repair Kit, Heavy-Duty Grout Cleaner - Restore and Renew Grout Line, Easy and Safe to Use, White, 8.8 oz - 250 gr 5.0 out of 5 stars 3 In our first home I chose a solid onyx base-loved it, fantastically solid. Basement Vapor Barrier and Insulation. The grout at the change of plane was cracking, so I decided to remove it and replace with silicone caulk. Thanks again for your help. But one sometimes chooses what the budget allows. I I’ve bin all over this website but after finding you I can final stop ……thanks for your time Rodger , Jeff. You build and waterproof it in a method that always ends up at the drain in some manner. In my second home we bought poly stone. The haze is in the pores of the marble (which is why it’s difficult to remove). Think of rubbing sand across glass. Prices and availability of products and services are subject to change without notice. For smaller projects, a smaller squeeze tube (usually 3 to 6 ounces) may be a more convenient choice. 4)I like using caulk where all 90 degree corners meet another tile wall or ceiling. With the right information, it can be an easy DIY project. Hi Rodger , I’m a newbie that just found the your super helpful Site . Maybe while they are there you create the problem for them to observe? I don’t care what they say, construction always has wood somewhere that can move. That’s why you waterproof the substrate behind the tile. Regular acrylic caulk will lose it’s elasticity much faster than silicone will, which means it needs to be replaced sooner. Creating weep holes in your existing area creates a combination system even though you have a tiled floor. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. Installer did not use silicone caulk at the change of planes–apparently grout vs. caulk at the corners is a subject of some debate (yes, I have been doing some internet reading) — but it appears the industry standard, and of course your valued opinion, would have been to use caulk. The easier, and proper, solution is to silicone first – I just don’t usually do that because of time restraints. It is commonly referred to as ‘pink mold’. However, I am prepared to fix this myself eventually. Thank you, Ranada. Wood moves, it’s just a fact of life. This would give you the option to have either a plumber or a different installer or contractor cut the dry wall on the backside to investigate what the issue might be. The weep hole I mentioned will likely solve the issue by allowing water running down the wall to exit onto the floor (above the tile, rather than beneath it). I’m going with Laticrete 1600 Unsanded with the 1776 Enhancer and using Latisil in the corners/change of plan. Polyurethane caulkings must be primed before painting, oil base primer. The fourth is glass. First: Don’t panic. I don’t care what they say, construction always has wood somewhere that can move. Tiles are white 4×12 with 1/16″ grout joint. Based on what I have been reading, it is not advisable to caulk over grout. Any thoughts or suggestions you have will be much appreciated! If you would like to understand more about the chemistry, manufacture, physical characteristics, and some tips for re-enforcing, coloring, dangers, and proper disposal, please read on. It can also be caused by hard water deposits. In a sealed system (tiled floor as well) it is normally behind all the tile, but it still ends up at the drain. Latasil will work better, it’s silicone. He discussed issues before and during our own install and was happy to take all our questions. I’ve just finished tiling the bathtub walls and two questions if possible . Would we risk our tile cracking over time? These products offer the easy use of latex with the added durability of silicone. If you are using epoxy go ahead and grout the corners and changes of plane as well. I would put them about an inch from each corner on the back wall and one on each side wall about an inch from the edge of the shower (inside the glass). As a side note, I can say that the clear silicone caulk stands out against the matte shower tile, and so the aesthetic is not nearly as nice as the sanded caulk. I am currently using Laticrete permacolor select as my goto grout – it’s good stuff too. That being the case, I will discuss using grout first. Good Luck! I plan on removing the thick grout around the window and replace it with 100% silicone caulk ONLY. Finding the problem to fix-i hope you’re guy has returned your call. I don't know about you, but I can't stand clutter on my counters, especially in my small apartment kitchen. All the cool kids are doin’ it. These rolls come with adhesive backing and a fast, no-mess application. You MAY get away with the tile to tub transition, but if there is excess movement and you have an acrylic tub the tub may actually end up cracking before the tile. Caulk is used as a sealant for filling cracks or gaps around windows, doors, plumbing and pipes. Roger, I would put one about an inch from that corner (on either wall) and probably another on the opposite side of the shower by the other corner. Video Below: This video is also available on YouTube here: If you only want the instructions for mixing Plaster of Paris please go directly to the video. The second test used 1 cup of OxiClean added to 1 gallon of hot water. Again, I let the solution stand on the tile & grout for 30 minutes and scoured for 5 minutes. Errors will be corrected where discovered, and Lowe's reserves the right to revoke any stated offer and to correct any errors, inaccuracies or omissions including after an order has been submitted. I started my project at Target. You can still make weep holes in those changes of plane. Would the wall that is having a leak be an interior wall? That simply means that if you are using sanded grout you cannot butt the tiles against each other at the corner and expect to be able to force grout into it. Hi Roger, I’m installing my first tile shower over an acrylic shower pan (Sterling) using 4×12 white tile. If there is any movement the caulk is flexible enough to move with it and remain in place. Would like some sort of shelf. Additionally, there were color flaws in the surface of the tiles...one tile with extra black dye for example and popped bubble looking circles on quite a few of the tiles. It a foam so it has time to work rather than just run off. You'll always get the best results when you use caulk that's designed for your project's specific conditions. So again, my husband repeated his repair process. Click Above to have professional TileTips sent directly to your inbox. Many professionals simply grout that corner as they do any other space between the tiles. As much as I love looking at pictures of my family while cooking I needed a solution to get things up and off the counter. Also, how soon after grouting can I silicone? The idea of removing the grout at all joints to replace with silicone caulk seems extreme (though I do realize that we should be prepared to experience grout cracking in other parts of the shower over time). Thanks for the speedy reply to my earlier comments, and for sharing your expertise. This produced somewhat cleaner grout but the tile didn’t look any better. Using a larger cartridge (usually 9 to 11 ounces) with a caulk gun will result in a continuous bead of caulk. Normally in a shower will a tiled floor as well, the water will run down the wall over the waterproofing, onto the floor, again-over the waterproofing, then into the weep holes in the drain. It is likely Serratia marcescens, which is a type of water-borne bacteria. What do you use for the bottom of the niche? So, even though the shower has hardly been used and it has been over a year since last use, we have suddenly developed pink grout! Latex and silicone caulk are the most common types. (the sanded vs. non-sanded actually doesn’t have anything to do with it.) If water were to run down the redgaurd, it would eventually hit caulking and have nowhere to go? I want to use caulk, but thought you had to grout underneath, oops. I have two questions 1) I had to cut out the durock around the flange clips in order to lay flat just above the flange. There are a couple of things that must be taken into consideration before choosing this method. For certain projects, you may need a specialty caulk designed for a particular task. It’s a bathtub/shower combo with porcelain tiles measuring 3×9 in size. This will allow the corner to expand and contract without cracking the grout. Or should I just caulk? We were fortunate when we were just learning we had a gentleman who owned his own tile company later selling it to a son. 2) Regarding the change of plans, can I still leave a gap of 1/8 inch at the corner tiles and fill with 100% white silicone (grout will be white) or do you recommend a butt joint? Caulk comes in two forms: a cartridge or a squeeze tube. Trying to stay away from epoxy grout. More concerning is that I observed a small amount of water seeping out from the corner 24 hours after the shower was last used (and after I had dried the floor)—so this indicates that water was definitely getting behind the tile. If this barrier is around the entire perimeter, it may still just be showing up at that corner, if that corner happens to be the lowest point of the perimeter. 1) you can not caulk or grout over existing grout. If your wall moves your grout will eventually crack – it’s that simple. Morphological leveling. I’m a bit meticulous and a perfectionist, not sure that really makes much difference helping solve your issue tho. However for the change of plane joints in the shower, I would want to use the colored silicone caulk such as at the corners and between the walls and the shower pan/tray. I also am not sure even if we remove the grout, how caulking just that corner will look given that the grout and caulk have such different textures, but my husband’s first instinct is to keep it simple and repair the current problem and deal with any future problems as they arise. We moved into the house in August 2020. You must decide you are going to use grout at the changes of plane. They didn’t mention what it was. Silicone is only aesthetic in that particular application. I have sealed all the grout, everywhere in the shower a couple weeks after we started using the shower everyday. I’m slowly plugging away on installing the tile and have decided to add a niche. Sorry, I know it sucks. Thanks again. If so then you don’t need to do anything with it – gravity makes everything work correctly. The only two disadvantages to using caulk instead of grout are that you need to periodically remove and replace the caulk and, depending on your choice of grout, you may not be able to find a caulk that matches exactly. You will need to remove the old grout. To learn how to use caulk, watch our video: How to Use Caulk. Best HD/Lowe’s grout suggestion for those and I think I’m set. I do know that there was a protective waterproof barrier in the floor beneath the tiles. The laticrete supplier in my area said the caulk is what they sell. I’ve decided to have my privacy violated and start putting things on Facebook. (That’s the word on the street…), Help with all your tile needs (and extreme jackassery!). The good news is by day 3, no more water had seeped out and the grout now seems dry. We realize we will probably have to remove, clean & recaulk every year. The only time I will use grout for a plane change is when I am using epoxy grout. In that case the water would run behind the tile down the wall and onto the floor (also under the tile) and into the weep holes in the drain (which are a standard part of the drain). The orange discoloration is mold. Another type of concrete caulk you'll encounter is called self-leveling caulk. (Don’t do that.) One of the most asked questions by do-it-yourselfer’s is whether they should use caulk or grout in the corners. I’d still go with bull-nose tile for the baseboard in any wet (shower-bath) bathroom. I want to use it in change of plane as well to eliminate caulk from our showers. I also plan to remove the grout along the 3 edges of the floor tiles and wall tiles and replace it with 100% silicone caulk ONLY. Take A Sneak Peak At The Movies Coming Out This Week (8/12) “Look for the helpers” – Celebrities helping out amid Texas storm Fast forward now, to Feb 2021 when I realized that it may not be covered under warranty because fine print (the crack needs to be a certain size). As far as the ‘dam’, you’re correct, that’s why you need weep holes. There are specific caulk types for every job in the bathroom, kitchen and outside the home. I let the solution stand on the tile & grout for 30 minutes and scrubbed for about 5 minutes. First, thus far we have seen no evidence in the crawl space that water is leaking into the framing. The gaps are 3/16”. More likely, however, the biggest issue is that the water behind the tile (completely normal) drains to the bottom of the wall and has no way to escape into the tub. Much has happened since I first posted my query. I’ve been seeing cracked grout issues, particularly along the edge where the floor tiles meet the wall tiles. How much time do you think I have before I may have any or more damage than today? Here’s how to fix it: Locations of weep holes in showers, Click here to get an instruction manual for your waterproofing installation. I have been trying to decide what do do with the gap between the hardibacker (red guard applied) and the mud shower pan. You’ll need to keep it clean and dry regularly or you’ll have issues with it. Because latex and some silicone caulk will take paint, you can use white caulk and paint it to match any place you're using it. What you must understand about tile installation is no matter where you are installing the tile, it is always a structure that moves, no matter how minutely. It doesn’t matter if it cracks or not, neither grout nor silicone in the corner has anything to do with your waterproofing or preventing water from getting behind your tile – that WILL happen anyway. Previous post: How Large Should Grout Lines Be? There HAS to be something there preventing that. The other route out of the wall is normally to keep building and running until it finds a spot which is not waterproofed and exits in that direction – all too often into the wall cavity and framing, or into the flooring substrate rather than a direction into the drain. Thanks for the above comment. I left 1/8” clean cut space between the tub and walls , can I leave this space open (no caulk) just the outside ends ? Sadly, in our case, it seems that the water was not properly making its way behind/under the tile to the drain, and thus after time, forcing its way past the grout (or sanded caulk) in that one corner. While there are pros and cons of each, I am in the camp that uses caulk. If, after a while, you see water running OUT of the weep holes, you have done exactly what needed to be done – give the water a way to reach the drain. Thank you. The easiest solution is to dig out a weep hole in the grout at the bottom of that corner. Either works, but silicone works better. Altho if it’s at the shower base level that may not be an option. However, it is your comments about weep holes that has me concerned because this was not mentioned by the new contractor, and I do not see that any were created–the clear silicone was applied directly over the existing grout. If that is something I need to use… Then what is it? I use 0000 grade steelwool to clean water stains on doors. The problem is that there is grout haze at the bottom edge of the wall tiles from where I tried to patch up the old grout in the past. Tiles start at the base of the bathtub & go up to the ceiling. Siliconing over the grout will only exacerbate the situation as it seals the grout and does not allow it to dry out through the grout lines – it traps more moisture. The tile caulk has a someone grainy texture that mimics that of grout, and am thinking of using that for the movement joint between the floor tiles and the cove molding. That would make it incorrectly installed. abs acos acosh addcslashes addslashes aggregate aggregate_info aggregate_methods aggregate_methods_by_list aggregate_methods_by_regexp aggregate_properties aggregate_properties_by In my new construction home, we have a standing shower (tiled walls and floor). Zep grout whitener is a great product. 1. Also do I caulk/silicone changes of plane before grouting or vice versa? Quikrete Fast-Setting Self-Leveling Floor Resurfacer is a self-finishing interior floor topping and underlayment specially formulated to produce smooth surfaces ready for the installation of ceramic tile, resilient flooring or other finishes. Water running out of there is a fair indication that it is at least waterproofed behind that area. My favorite regular grout is currently laticrete’s permacolor select. It’s simply cylindrical foam used to fill empty space before caulking. Yes, you can. Industry standards state that a flexible material be used at all changes of plane. Both grouts you’ve mentioned work well. I’m confused. This haze is proving extremely difficult to remove, especially because it’s on marble and acids are a no-no. Everything I’m about to tell you is fixable easily. Great website by the way. I did not understand that water is meant to run behind the tile wall and under the tile floor to the drain, but this makes perfect sense since grout is porous (I did learn that sealing grout is not a waterproofing step). Next post: Filling Grout Lines with More Grout. I have no knowledge regarding how your shower base was installed. Precautions must still be taken but the Epoxy is strong enough to withstand normal structural movement. It’s actually likely Serratia marcescens, which is a bacteria. I normally just avoid the corners when grouting and scrape out any grout that does get in there. Concrete moves, (the ground beneath it) that’s why it has expansion joints – to control where the movement goes. i.e. I’m backwards like that. Another issue is that not only will the installer not respond (and frankly, he has lost our trust), we are finding it difficult to find someone local willing to step in and help. Our installer did not seal where tub meets tile/grout. 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